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VR, I see you are back from the Hospital after getting the foot removed.

Hope it did'nt hurt too much. I agree with yours and 407's method of longlining a fire in the mountains, more effective.


What happened to Frontiers belly tanks they had on the 205's.


Anyhow keep all that info for the assoc. and write a book on it.




PS. Talking slinging, longlining, building ski slope lifts, etc.

There was an Air Force Pilot with 108 Squadron out of Ottawa who wrecked more helicopters on the Mid-Canada line construction, mostly through stupidity and then became an expert with Okie on building ski lifts. Does anybody know his name?? I think he wrote a book, what an ego.

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Wow, this one got hot for a while!


VRef, you said " When guys tell me they bucket off the bellie ( and the longline is coiled up under the tarp) so there is more fire for them to put out tomorrow, and they want to keep flying "eight's"...tell that to all the people that lost there houses and personal property!!! You have no idea how proud some people are of there "milking it " stories and the stuff they wrecked that day!


These are the guys that make me say that if there is going to be a professional pilot assoc, we have to first be 'professional'. Sadly, there are many of them around.

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1) both styles of bucketing have their place

2) I would like to read the reference material that says shortlining is unsafe, inefficient, and wrong.

3) I want to nominate you for leader of the Assoc. and maybe the 22 miss fellow will gladly donate his 200 bucks so he makes sure he recieves the massive amount of support from yourself and maybe 407 to possibly better himself.

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Vert Ref, Alberta requires the duals be removed so the spotter can move from the front left seat into the rear cabin to begin a rappel.


The guys in the photos are not seismic or logging pilots trying to "milk" the system. They are pilots that would probably love to long-line their buckets if they knew how.

We all have to learn somewhere. Though forest fires are the perfect place, a fire in Kootenay Park at 30deg C is not the right fire, so they kept it on the belly. It's better to get your picture in Vertical than it is to get in the Vortex.


I realise your comment (and 407D's agreement) were meant in jest, unfortunately I (and many others it seems) found the reference to be disrespectful, supercillious and unnecessary.


MINI, the reasons to long-line in the mountains are listed by 407Driver a few posts above yours. Hopefully he won't mind me repeating them here for convenience. I fully agree with them all.

" 1) Dip Sites, It was darn tough finding a good dip site for that 214ST, A longline equipped aircraft could have easily cut the cycle times in half.

2) Drop accuracy, some of you belly hooked guys may be accurate, but some that I flew beside were not, in fact it was actually embarassing to watch. One pilot in particular was the talk of the fire crews...0 for 22, they talked of 22 straight misses !

3) Rotorwash effect on the fire. big issue when you're a AUW is 19,000 (or even 11,200)

4) Drop height, the customer wants results ! "


If you can't long-line well enough to fill a bladder with a 150' line, or fly in ice and fog to a rig on the Grand Banks, or drop twelve skiers at a little flag half-buried in the world's lightest powder-snow......you aren't a clown. You are simply another pilot working your way up.

Ensure you do everything, at all stages of your career, safely and professionally. Your passengers, family, and boss deserve nothing less.........and want you to attempt nothing more.

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Cyclic, was not aware that the duals now had to be removed!


Blackmac, has nothing to do with the hills or the flats! Has to do with qualified individuals not treating a provincial client the way they would a personel one!


I have worked with previous co-workers and beside other airman that are highly qualified and supplied with fully functional aircraft yet get to a fire and decide to "top up the RRSP's". Wasting our tax dollars...


If you are better qualified on the bellie so be it. Tankers are! But if you have the resources to be efficient with the line and were short hooking it to make things better for the wallet, I shake my head!

I am well aware that the 214 was not equipped to longline, therefore it would have been a waste of provincal funds for him to try would it not!

Seismic pilot, if you could have done a better job on the line and chose to go short, so be it. Enjoy your retirement fund!


99 % of all the individuals on these fires busted there arses' worked hard and did an exceptional job. But to those who saw it as a gravy train...remember there were a lot of federal, provincial and personal losses.


I'm done with this topic...

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Hey Cyclic Monkey.


I am able to longline well enough to fill a bladder with a 200 ft. line.And believe it or not I was flying off the Grand Banks and Sable Isl in the fog and snow 23 years ago. Lots of time in 212s vfr and ifr, but sorry have not done Heli ski. My comment was referring to Overtalks comment about the reasons to use a longline in the mountains. I do agree with 407s points, but Overtalk made that comment as a standalone statemeant.I was just asking why?

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I think this topic is going well as it always hits me hard and makes me boil inside with this one tracked attitude, There is so many variables that can go into using or not using a longline, I don't have to mention them again as CM and 407d already did.

Last year all I did was bucket off the belly, Never had one complaint, This year I learnt how to longline out of a meduim bucketing 7000' filling bladders with a 150'.

I then had to go to another fire and the boss wanted me on the belly.

No problem , I feel comfortable doing both.

Ontario 8 meduims on a fire, 1 using the longline the rest on the belly, guess who went home first. Because he refused to take his long-line off, he felt it was unsafe.

See there is a benefit to being able to do both safly and with comfort. There are more techniques to fighting a fire then hitting a drop shot or a bladder.


Vert Ref- Can you do both and be safe and comfortable doing it?

Everyone should do there job to the best of there ablility and as safe as possible with out the one tracked minded pilots bashing them.

The real professionals are the ones who can be open minded and accept that.

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