Mountain Winds

[Skids Up]

Also don't be bad or feel the need to make up excuses if you make a couple attempts and then go land somewhere else-

 

I agree! This is the most important. DON"T ever let someone "push" you into a spot that doesn't have good wind, or just does not even feel "quite right".

 

Time and experience will be the thing that helps, don't let anyone put into a place where you are unable to further your education...

[skullcap]

Very much excellent advise from these posts.

 

One little tidbit which I use for customers and pilots who do not understand the capabilities of wind;

 

5 kts of wind equals 500 feet per minute. Thus when you are trying to climb or land in downflowing air even if a gentle breeze is blowing you may not be going anywhere.

 

It is very respectable when birdtowing at altitude to get 800 fpm(lama have seen almost 2500 fpm up though,,,,,ya hoo) but if the terrain is steep it only takes a little wind to keep you from climbing.

 

Always keep an out and never let your own theory of the wind dictate what is happening....keep an open mind and listen to your machine. Know your performance charts and limits.

 

As BM says keep the first trip light.

 

Worked at Canadian for sometime and had pleasure of working with the folks in Penticton. Excellent training.

 

 

 

[GoldMember]

Skullie's advice here reminds me of some he gave me over the phone a couple of years ago.

 

I was flying a 204 in Castlegar and delivering several loads of stillwells to crews staged all over a hill near Slocan. I was having a great time, there was a nice breeze, 5-10 knots, that allowed a perfect approach to the staging area halfway up the hill at a switchback on a road. As I approached the staging for my 4th pick up at about 20 KIAS, while maintaining the same altitude, I began to slow to a walking pace and applied power to hold altitude and BANG I started to settle with power. As I had maintained an out, all I had to do was lower the collective a bit, push the cylclic forward and fly away. The same thing happened again later in the day and I was a bit perplexed as I was not in a 3-500 fpm decent with low airspeed, so why was I getting into settling?

 

Simple Mr. Skully said, 5 knots of wind is 500 fpm running up the hill making your rotor system behave as if it's in a 500 fpm decent. All you have to do is apply a little power to that scenario to get into settling.

 

Lots of great advice here.

[Black Mike]

Mixmaster,

I just wanted to add one comment, I have never taken a mountain course- I learned by trial and error as many did during the late 70's and early 80's. I started the first few years with Bell 47's that you had to do it right. I don't claim to know it all and would love to do a mountain course to compare notes with one of the pro's. I am also asking advise and comparing techniques with fellow experienced pilots daily as all information on this subject is useful. Don't be afraid to ask (as I see you aren't) as little tips may save your butt someday.

Any comments I make are just my opinion on what has worked for me.

B.M.

[VFA-136]

Excellent post!!! I have learned a lot by reading this post so far, especially from Black Mike. I have a tremendous amount of respect for anyone who learned the hard way, and is still here to write about it. I am very fortunate to have received the CHL mountain course in Penticton. The instructors are top notch and expect students to excel by the end of the course. The course length varies, but I was lucky enough to get a full 25 hour course. It has definitely saved my life. The course covers a lot of material ranging from weather to performance to simple flying techniques so many of us don't do. The big thing I did learn overall, besides the different mountain landing site types, was to use small, smooth inputs to the helicopter. At altitude the control response may be more delayed than at sea level, but what you really notice is the machine talks to you. You learn very quickly that life is much easier when you fly smoothly and precisely, especially in terms of altitude control and airspeed control. The techniques taught in Penticton help you identify even a very small amount of upflow or downflow, as well as to precisely find the wind direction, even with a very very light wind. I normally fly the ASTAR, but everything I learned in the old 206 in Penticton can be applied to the ASTAR. The AS350 series tail rotor is amazing, but it is still a tail rotor and all the same things that happen in a 206 can happen in the 350 as well. The 350 tail rotor is more forgiving but it is not invinceable. I can't give you a CHL mountain course book, but you could contact the school to see if they can sell one to you. Hope this helps a bit Mixmaster. You will definitely learn more from guys like Black Mike than myself, but I still like to share what has happened to me. Cheers. Fly safe everyone.

 

 

[mixmaster]

Black Mike

 

Yes I agree, I have found that most of my learning about aviation has been to find some "Grumpy Old Fart", say hello and shut up and listen! I am quite young in the business, but the accumulated experience from more experienced pilots is vital to newer people. Some times the "Young'ns" just don't know how to listen. I don't always have the opportunity to get out and meet different pilots, so the beginning of fire season is great with ships and pilots going every which way! Also forums like this allow me to get mix "fix" of stories, information and news

 

Any way the Grumpy Old Fart comment is not meant to be derogatory. I would be grumpy if I had been sitting is a Bell seat all those hours too!

 

Many thanks for all the great posts

 

Mixmaster

[snowedin]

Sling:

 

Are you reading......Mixmaster is a great example of how to conduct yourself...low time or not.....

 

Not trying to whip you up....but cant help but read his last post and think of yours lately.....

 

Thanks Mike and all for the responses....this is how this forum should operate more often

 

 

[Elan Head]

Whoa, let's not whip anyone up!

 

Re: my Canadian Heli story, it's way too long to post on the forums (not necessarily for bandwith reasons, just for clogging-up-the-works reasons), but happy to email a copy to anyone who wants to email me or drop me a PM. The April-May issue will be posted online in the next one to two weeks, so you can also read the version with the pretty pics there!

 

Black Mike, your experiences sound similar to those of the Okanagan guys who started the school in Penticton! They also started out flying 47s, which didn't leave a lot of room for error. So they had to figure out better ways of flying in the mountains, and the school grew out of their experiences. What drives me nuts about the (lack of) mountain training in the U.S. is that at this point we know lots about how to fly and not fly in the mountains — why are we still asking new pilots to reinvent the wheel?

[sling]

Sling:

 

Are you reading......Mixmaster is a great example of how to conduct yourself...low time or not.....

 

Not trying to whip you up....but cant help but read his last post and think of yours lately.....

 

Thanks Mike and all for the responses....this is how this forum should operate more often

 

Snowedin, thank you to be nice...i do appreciate this allot. Yes your right, there is a way to behave and i totally agree with you. Trust me, I'm more than a nice person to cope with and also to work with. One thing I'm not able stand, is a person treating another badly according to his level of experience. I have the true love and great Passion for the industry, but i will chose unemployment instead of coping with the wrong one. I did suffer of that too much when i was younger and i put a stop to it a long time ago.

Also, this forum is for me a great place to hang out, i learn alto here, but one thing to keep in mind is that it's not real life, it's a forum ,some people will act here a lot different that they would in the real life(out on the job). The hat fits me and many others.

Cheers

Sling.

[Skidmark]

Mixmaster

A mountain course is the way to go!!!! I did one a few years ago and i can say so far it was the best training I've had thus far. Thanks KO. If you are able to do one in the future, you really have to consider what you are buying. Many courses here in Canada are geared towards customer requirements to work in British Columbia. They are great courses, respected around the globe. However as mentioned, very expensive. If you are interested in just grasping the basics you can probably shop around and just get a 5-10 hour coarse from one of the same instructors that teach the 25 hr courses.

 

There has been a bunch of good responses here and a wealth of knowledge. If you'd like some literature to read about this topic there are several articles available on the Transport Canada web page. Go to http://www.tc.gc.ca/air/menu.htm and search mountain flying.

 

Earlier someone made a comment about being able to get away with playing downwind in an Astar with light winds. I'll probably get chewed out for this but, when an Astar decides its not happy it can really kick your A**. Nine times out of ten you'll get away with it, maybe more. That one time is enough to keep my nose into wind. High winds in an Astar in the mountains brings up another issue, servo transparency. Been there, done that, filled my pants.

 

I may not know everything, but i did find my spell check button Sling