Maintenance Staff

[thekingshead]

How about someone start a new topic if people want to argue about pilot-engineer differences.

 

As an engineer, half of your job is being able to get along with the pilot you are crewed up with. Worked with alot of different drivers and for the most part they have been excellent guys. Old timers are my favorite, they respect the machine, respect their engineer, know there is nothing to prove and realize that the machine gets paid by the hour so they take there time. When a pilot knows your not going to get back to camp in time for dinner or vice versa and puts a meal away for you , you know he is a good guy. 8 hrs of bucketting on a fire and the bambi bucket required no repairs, you know the pilot is GOOD! Some including old timers treat the machine like ####, expect you to bend over backwards for them and they rush to finish every task. Not sure if some realize what TORQUE really is, or do they care? Manangement doesn't care either it seems, those pilot types are making us money. When I saw the 212 I was looking after do a hammer head turn this past spring I was told the pilot is good because he is very company oriented and bends over backwards for the company. Guess it doesn't matter when I next guy gets in the machine and something finally gives away because it was abused or over stressed or whatever.

 

To the new apprentice on here, express what you want online but keep your options to yourself around your hanger. Apprentice engineers get ZERO respect and are easily replaced, you are a dime a dozen.

 

I am curious? Companies are complaining about not being able to find workers, who fault is it? What goes around comes around and it's nice to see that these companies who refused for years to invest time and money into new blood are now facing higher rates when they need to find some experience out there. For someone who does there research before becoming part of this trade, it's not very appealing nor worth while when they see the outcome or benefits. Low money and lots of time away from home. Hard to convince anyone with those incentives.

 

It's about time these companies realize that without engineers there aircraft are going to be parked waiting for the maintenance.

[Fenestron]

"I think a lead base engineer should make the same as the lead pilot on that base. Pool engineers should generally make more than a base engineer when they are out "camping". Contract guys should make more than pool guys, I didn't do that this summer but I was happy at the time with the deal I made, plus the company and I seem to get along well enough."

 

 

Let me just disagree with that momentarily....whether your base, pool or contract we are all doing the same job and therefore should be paid to do the same job. With the incentives for being away from base etc, you can make more, but only for being away and whats that amount lately? Just a few bucks for away from base right?. Don't forget the job on the base is no different and therefore in my mind should garner the same wage for the maintenance work.

 

I have seen far too many pool machines dumped into a base guys lap to get "fixed up", you know the routine....too busy to fix this, too tired to fix that, had to catch the bus home, tour was over......glad you made a killing on the flight pay and away from base to make up for the lax maintenance you were doing. Not too worry, the base super wrench will fix that right up for you on his pittance of a salary compared to the coin those pool and contract guys raked in.

 

But how do you fix an inherent problem that many take advantage of out of greed laziness etc??? You can't fire them all, once you create a void, the herd of dogf*ckers will just do the rotation with the shortages out there.

[vintagemilano]

Let me just disagree with that momentarily....whether your base, pool or contract we are all doing the same job and therefore should be paid to do the same job. With the incentives for being away from base etc, you can make more, but only for being away and whats that amount lately? Just a few bucks for away from base right?. Don't forget the job on the base is no different and therefore in my mind should garner the same wage for the maintenance work.

 

The jobs are different, base guys don't have to deal with the environment, don't have to keep the machine going with whatever they happened to pack at the beginning of the summer and base guys can get laid whenever they want. Pool guys when they are out camping usually only have one machine to look after. Contract guys should get paid to reflect that the company has no salary to cover for the winter and no other employment costs like WCB etc. True we all work on helicopters but the jobs are different enough.

As for pool guys dumping snag ridden machines at a base a taking off that is the integrity of the individual, not the fact that they are pool or base. Personally I think flight pay should be abolished, creates too much animosity (and no spelling skills) I like what one company does with signout pay as then if you do the work you get the moola. In the end no system will be perfect.

[helipinch]

Wow, This is getting deep! :afro: OK here I go!

 

I have been a Contract Engineer, a Pool Engineer, and a Base Engineer.

When a contract or pool Engineer is done at the end of the day, or on time off He/She is done. The base Engineer has a phone that never stops ringing, Goes in early, stays late, comes in after hours and weekends, gets two weeks off a year, and gets no flight pay, away from base pay, per diem, and dose get snag bags and inspections dropped in his lap on a regular basis!

I know, I've dropped off a few myself!!!!

He/She is usually the one with the most Company loyalty and dedication. I think they are the ones who need a raise!!!

 

I was Contract for many years for the coin, but also because I was trying to find a place to call home. I left lots of companies, but never because of pay. It was always because I did not like the way the maintenance was being done.

 

I went Full Time (Pool) with my current company because I know, trust, and respect so many people there. The wage..... With 16 years experience I entered at the top of the pay scale, ($4000/Mo $27/Hr A-Star) so I will never see a raise. But I am happy, I feel good about the job I am doing, and I get good feedback from the people I work with. Pilots and engineers alike!

 

If the pay scale reflected experience, knowledge, ability, Pilot management skills, and dedication, I know allot of guys/galls who would be rich!!!

 

I got to stop typing now cause I'm on my last Beer! :punk:

 

Cheers

Pinch

[onegear]

After reading all the posts I have to wade in to this quagmire.

 

This summer alone I have been made offers of employment(solicited and non). Here they are and I haven't taken any of them. Not because I am too good for them. They all come from respected companies(your opinion may differ). I have 10 years in the industry and over 5 years licensed.

1: 27.50/ hour + 30 away from base 3 weeks on/2 off pool job

2: 4700/month + signing bonus, base job. 6 week summer tours

3: 325/day 5/3, pool job

4:275/day+15/flight hour 4/2 pool job

 

Here the thing if any of these offers were up for a bit of negotiation, then I probably would have taken on of them. But i have been told that at 5 years licensed I am at the top of the pay scale, I am flattered. The real question is in the Canadian market, and I've already hit the ceiling of the pay, Where do i go from here?

 

The young engineers like myself around 30, are looking for some consessions, not in pay but in quality of life. Like equal time on and off. ie 2/2 3/3 6/6. or in the area of winter work at a Main Base than compressed work week ie 4 10hr days. These are things that don't require more money, and you can only throw money at a problem for so long. This is another reason that the new apprentices are going to Heli-one. As it has been posted earlier.

 

 

Love what I do, but I don't live to work. Just my 2 cents

[Fenestron]

that is a good question "where do you go from here?"

 

Once you hit the top of the pay scale there isn't much more you can do, and it's unfortunate because at 5 years licenced, you hit the top, yet you have many more years of learning ahead of you. And for what? Why learn more when you won't be rewarded in the end.

Some may say you can always move up the ladder in a corporation, but be realistic, engineers moving up is limited at best. Our real work and our real passion is on the ground doing what we do best. Pay us and compensate us for it and use us to our full potential.

I consider my stint away from the field to be both a blessing and a hinderance. I've lost some valuable field time, but have gained immensely in the new technology and better understanding of what it costs when you don't do your job in the field to the best of your abilities.

Will I ever be lured back into the bush life? Can't answer that yet.....

[onegear]

that is a good question "where do you go from here?"

 

Once you hit the top of the pay scale there isn't much more you can do, and it's unfortunate because at 5 years licenced, you hit the top, yet you have many more years of learning ahead of you. And for what? Why learn more when you won't be rewarded in the end.

Some may say you can always move up the ladder in a corporation, but be realistic, engineers moving up is limited at best. Our real work and our real passion is on the ground doing what we do best. Pay us and compensate us for it and use us to our full potential.

 

This is my point, I learn at work everyday. Every good wrench does, or at least tries to. The perception of the value of aviation has to fundamentally change. It takes a specific type of person to be involved in the industry, drivin' or fixn' , and as a skills base improves the reward(financal or otherwise) has to increase. Good operators know that skilled people make them money, and save them money in the long run.

 

The problem is how to get the customer to pay for the premium talent that all of them want, and some stipulate in contracts? If that get's sorted then we will all be off to a good start in improving things. But for now I am trying to enjoy the place that I am, and try to take in as much as I can. Who knows what snags lie ahead

[gas producer]

After reading the previous posts I can see why companies are having a hard time finding qualified people. All the wages listed with the exception of BR's are far too LOW. It seems some people are working for much less than they are worth giving the companies they work for the wrong perception what the rest of us are worth. I wouldn't blame anybody for laughing and hanging up the phone after being offered some of the wages listed here.

 

Since the day I was licensed a few years ago I have never worked on anything smaller than a 204 and never made less than 80k a year both pool and contract. Almost every year I have taken taken 2 months off in the winter. This year I am well on my way to 100k + again, thanks to the supply and demand at the moment. I have always specified the tours I want to work, mostly 3/2 or 2/2. Anything over 3 weeks the dirty dozen start to kick in, not to mention family obligations.

 

I am loyal to the companies I work for until there is a shortage of work then I will move on. If a higher offer comes my way I always give the company a chance to meet that offer. I have no problem doing hangar work as long as an acceptable day rate can be worked out and all meals and accomadations are paid for if I'm away from home.

 

For all of you out there not being paid what you are worth its time to start demanding more. Their is a shortage of people in this industry right now and the only way to attract more people and keep the ones we got is higher wages. The economy is in a an up cycle right now and all other skilled trades are seeing large increases in wages.

 

My 2 sense.

[marc]

On the topic of pay, but switching gears, what do you think an apprentice out of school should make?

 

I think half of what a just licesed guy in the same company and work situation (Base/pool/contract) is making to START is fair. then any raises should reflect your level of productivity.

 

Any other opinions not coming from an apprentice?

[212wrench]

started in 1990 out of school for $1500/month, $11/hr flight pay, $20/day bush, $32 per dieum. working on 206 and when sign out was needed engineer showed up and picked up the rest of the $20/hr.