100hr Wonders

[mckied]

I was at the Galore Creek job the other day and all the companies there have hired fresh commercial guys for PAID ground crew positions. Chatting to one companys senior pilots and to the new guys themselves reveals that they are all dissatisfied with their current standing and cannot fathom why they are not flying yet. Most have been employed for a month. Two of them got up and left. One left after one tour and the other after only a week. Both cited that it wasn't what they expected?

Its a cushy number, they are staying at Bell 2, they are working around and under the 206's, 205's, Kamov, Vertol, Chinook and the Mil 26? They sometimes have to clean the inside of the machine but pretty much they are there to meet and greet, refuel and hook up loads. Seems to me to be a dream come true personally and some of them are even getting the odd fly of the 205.

When a 100hr wonder says its not what he was expecting and why am I not flying? One has to ask what the #### are they being told in flight school? The schools are churning the pilots out in only 3 months and leaving us with the job of making them useful. Its a ripoff for the industry and depressing to see the calibre of guy that is wanting to become a pilot these days. Most of us can relate to many years of ground work and its becoming irritating to listen to the delusions of these new guys and to watch their lack of enthusiasm, commonsense and work ethic.

Someone explain.

I wish I has a job like that!!! Those guys need to open their eyes and realize it's almost impossible to get your first flying job. I myself am still trying to find that first flying job after many years and I have over 500 hours sitting co-joe in a 214. Yes, its not a PIC job which companies are eager to point out (which I understand) but it is great operational experience. And yes I'm willing to do a ground crew job if it will lead to a entry level flying job. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.

[volition]

I wish I has a job like that!!! Those guys need to open their eyes and realize it's almost impossible to get your first flying job. I myself am still trying to find that first flying job after many years and I have over 500 hours sitting co-joe in a 214. Yes, its not a PIC job which companies are eager to point out (which I understand) but it is great operational experience. And yes I'm willing to do a ground crew job if it will lead to a entry level flying job. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.

 

Did they give you your rating on the 214? If not, you hours on the 214 don't even count! As per TC.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/general/personnel/cop.htm

[mckied]

Did they give you your rating on the 214? If not, you hours on the 214 don't even count! As per TC.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/general/personnel/cop.htm

Yup, I'm endorsed on the 214. I'm lucky in that sense but it's still incredibly difficult to break into the industry even with that I find.

[hybrid]

I think and hope what these companies are trying to accomplish is to see how these guys starting out in the industry, are going to perform before they take a chance and invest a bunch of time and money into them. Some companies (VIH for example) carefully screen their applicants before they even give them a chance, once they do they want to see if they will work as a team member. If they are more interested, at this early stage of their career in their hours of work and constitutional rights than getting the job done and keeping the customers satisfied, then the sooner they move on the better for everybody involved. If I have a low time pilot that is working with me and giving the extra effort to help get the job done, I will give an extra effort to teach him as much as I can and give him a little stick time at the end of the day or whenever an opportunity presents itself. As anybody that works in the industry knows you have to be resourceful,flexible,have common sense and especially know how to deal with customers. It is also a good opportunity to see how they will handle situations once they are on line, such as having to stay in camp for a few more days because their cross shift was in a car accident or something. So if after two weeks or a month they leave before anything was invested then a lot of time and effort has been saved, I don't think it takes very long to see who is going to make it and who won't. There is some really good young men and woman out there that are worth the time and effort, especially in a time when there is such a shortage of pilots and engineers. So bring them into places like Galore Creek and let the cream float to the surface, and let the ones who don't have the drive find a different career.

[volition]

Yup, I'm endorsed on the 214. I'm lucky in that sense but it's still incredibly difficult to break into the industry even with that I find.

 

I'm looking for a position like that! A co-jo job for me would be great! Where would I even start looking for a job like that!

[Harmonic_Vibe]

I think and hope what these companies are trying to accomplish is to see how these guys starting out in the industry, are going to perform before they take a chance and invest a bunch of time and money into them. ... screen their applicants before they even give them a chance, once they do they want to see if they will work as a team member. If they are more interested, at this early stage of their career in their hours of work and constitutional rights than getting the job done and keeping the customers satisfied, then the sooner they move on the better for everybody involved. If I have a low time pilot that is working with me and giving the extra effort to help get the job done, I will give an extra effort to teach him as much as I can and give him a little stick time at the end of the day or whenever an opportunity presents itself. ... So if after two weeks or a month they leave before anything was invested then a lot of time and effort has been saved, I don't think it takes very long to see who is going to make it and who won't. There are some really good young men and woman out there that are worth the time and effort, especially in a time when there is such a shortage of pilots and engineers. .... and let the cream float to the surface, and let the ones who don't have the drive find a different career.

 

WHAT YOU SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hybrid]

O.k. I rambled on a bit ,just trying to say that there is a few good candidates out there, you might have to go through a few to find them.

[maxtorqe]

DGP, there's nothing wrong being from coconut college. Like they say the best in the west are from the east.

 

Which reminds me of a great joke, know why you can't get a BJ in NewFoundland?

Well parched desert growth,

 

If your not getting paid overtime your getting screwed. I am paid time off in lue of a direct overtime payment. 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off - still getting paid. The hours that I work during my two weeks on average out over my two weeks off. I get paid for the whole month.

 

If you are a pilot then you fall under the federal labour code and averaging. If you are a wonder and are not being paid to fly then you fall under your provincial labour code and labour laws. Which entitles you to OT after 8 or 40 per week. Not my law, your provincial law.

 

Do you also know that if you work a stat your flight pay is to be calculated at time and a half as well. So you fly 4 you should get paid for six! Depending on where you work and what province your company is based out of.

 

Cleaning hanger floors, hooking up sling loads, washing helicopters is labour not flying! Whether you are on an hourly rate, daily rate, monthly wage or annual salary they are based on 40 hrs per week. Anything over that qualifies for overtime regardless of pay procedures. And regardless of any meal, lodging and mileage allowance provided.

 

If you don't believe me google the labour codes of Canada and your province.

 

The wonders have the right to shut her down after 8 or 40 if they are not getting paid! Do you work for free? It has nothing to do with a good or bad attutude. I know a handfull of past helicopter crews that have taken their employer to court over this exact problem. Even the largest helicopter company in the world will settle out of court on this topic!

 

So the only question left my water conserving reservior friend is, you wanna be the mommy or the daddy?

wow then reality hits! remeber no one is ever forced to work for any company. sounds to me like some people are in the wrong line of work!

[Harmonic_Vibe]

Hybrid, I wasn't accusing you of rambling... I was concurring wholeheartedly... I thought you, very succinctly, said everything I was thinking on the subject... sorry if it was misconstrued...

 

HV

[Cole]

The wonders have the right to shut her down after 8 or 40 if they are not getting paid!

 

This is something I think alot of people in many different walks of life must learn and remember. Even if the employee IS getting paid you have the right to refuse overtime. There can be no repercussion for this action (bear in mind this refers to the company not being able to fire you for refusing overtime, NOT anything flying related so if they decide since one guy stayed and another went home the latter doesnt see the stick for a longer time thats 'fair game' as it were.)

 

I think if you look at from your employers point of view you begin to understand alot faster. How long is a ppc ride? few hours? that alone is a few thousand dollars of non rev flying that you cost the company. This alone requires some level of commitment from the company as they want to see some return on their investment. You cant expect to walk into a job after 100 hours of training and be handed the 'keys' to a half million dollar aircraft. it just wont happen. If putting in 80 hour weeks is what it takes to earn the PRIVILEDGE of flying somones half million dollar equipment then why not? Not going to get any worse after youre established as groundcrew as long as your employer isnt just trying to screw you.

In prespective I see it like this. Go buy a $500,000 lambo or ferrari, then let someone you dont know with 100 hours in a car take it for a drive after mabey 10 hours in exotic cars. Seems kinda stupid doesnt it? So we can take away these barriers buy letting the 'new driver' help out and learn as much as possible about the specific 'car' and ultimately let the new driver take the car around the block.

 

So when you got your drivers license did you expect somoene you didnt know to hand you the keys to a ferrari? No. Respect and trust ust be earned, and the employer must know they are trusting and respecting a good candidate for the job (ie people skills etc)

 

Im way to tired and have a mock exam in 5 hours so im gonna hit the hay.

Cole