Work Permit Freeze

[happydays]

 

Wouldn't worry Scuba, given happyfeets logic he'll be bringing a petition out banning ALL four letter words!!!!!!!!

 

Talking of the petition it's really gathering steam now! 24 and counting!

 

We have 4 confirmed experienced pilots out of work. One claiming there are 'no positions'........did anyone tell him it's the middle of winter over there????

 

We have 3 probables thanks to happyfeet. Can that be believed?

 

We have a bunch of low time guys looking for a break.........expected! Atleast they weren't affraid to add their names!

 

And a swag of annonymous people who couldn't even manage a comment! Mmmmm

 

 

 

 

 

Happydays.....you bet!

 

 

[newfieboy]

Hey Happyfeet

 

Strange name for a guy that *****'s like you. I normally keep off posting on this forum , being a foreign boy living in Canada, but hey been here for nearly 20 years and amassed over 10000hrs in your beautiful country and International . Maybe you should post your rants on PPRUNE rotorheads forum, thats where all us guys from Canada, Kiwiland, UK ,Australia, Europe, etc... hang out working the International market, and you being in the UAE ,what Senior Pilot , the mod ban you off there, Been a bad year already with accident;s so the boyos could do with abit of humour reading your rants.Certainally doing yourself no favours in the industry at all.Maybe all the Canadian boys in Nigeria, Thailand, Vietam, Middle East, North Sea,GOM, etc working for CHC, Bristow;s, Aero ,ADA ,Gulf, SaudiAramco, Evergrenn ,Logistics, Era, to name a few places would love to hear it......Buddy it;s a Global indus try, what dont ya get.........

[happyfeet]

My take on this whole scenario is as follows;

 

Work permits are issued by immigration to furnners as long as they are SPONSORED by a company that is perceived to have problems finding employable people within their own borders. This applies to any industry in that country.

 

The helicopter industry in Canada has TWO viable associations, HAC representing the company owners who are SPONSORING the applicants for work permits and HEPAC who has the interest of the pilots and engineers at stake.

 

We are all being very naive if we are not aware that some entities use the "work permit" to pay an out of country individual below standard wages and the company has control of the individual in a master slave relationship, which I believe is illegal.

 

For Canadian companies the work permits should only be accepted by HRDC/Immigration if they have been vetted by HAC/HEPAC to ascertain that a qualified PILOT/ENGINEER is not available.

 

HRDC or Immigration are not the experts.

 

Cheers, Don

 

 

Don. You are dead on.!

 

The main obstacle that has hindered the proper decisions in the past has been that it was hard to get HRDC and immigration in the same room. This was accomplished just yesterday, at a considerable cost long distance I may add. My self and another high time pilot had roughly a 1.5 hour conference call at the directors level, where many suggestions and solutions where bounced around. At the end of the call it was clearly stated that the whole process would be tightened up. The conference call was very productive.

 

One of the more positive developments was instructing them on where pilots look for work. I named 2 locations that for the better part of my career have been the place to look. The matter of employers advertising for Canadian pilots in backwater locations is now over and will no longer be considered adequate. They will be given tighter rules on where the advertising can be placed so that it reaches as many possible candidates as possible. I also pointed them in the direction of the HEPAC website. They will also actively monitor these sites to identify candidates. Moreover, they will monitor and take a better look at unrealistic requirements like degrees, or cattle mustering, or those activities that are unrelated or not required to fill a position. In addition to this the names 6 companies where brought to light as repeat offenders. So they are now being watched.

 

In addition to this I helped them understand the nuances of the business, and we also discussed some of the gross violations of the labor laws that we had both experienced over the past 40 years. The end result is this additional information will be sent to Labor Standards. They were very surprised that the industry had not as of yet organized to protect their own. In addition they know understand that HAC is out for its own interests and does not represent the pilots and engineers at all. Once we explained that the majority of the companies were mom and pop operations they understood the difficulty of organizing.

 

There was also discussion of measuring and attaining data on the current list of available Canadians. For the longest time they had been assuming that it was a reflection of pilots collecting E.I. they were new to the fact that the per portion of contractors is far larger than was previously assumed. As a result of this they admitted that the previous numbers where inaccurate and not a good base to determine Canadian availability. In addition they were not even aware of the number of helicopter operators and after they where told, they agreed to take proactive measure to assure the number of permits would be greatly reduced and even put on hold. This of course takes time and the results will be delayed I imagine a month or so. We made a clear distinction between Helicopter operators and fixed wing the first being far smaller with a very small number of opening per year.. They said they would attain a list from Transport Canada on the accurate numbers of operators and licenses. Active and non active.

 

There are few other finite points we discussed, but the end result will without any future concern be the reduction in permits for 2009. Over and out.!

 

It had to be done, and I sincerely hope that more persons actively seeking work will sign the petition as it will only further support the action that is being taken.

 

HF

[happyfeet]

Wouldn't worry Scuba, given happyfeets logic he'll be bringing a petition out banning ALL four letter words!!!!!!!!

 

Talking of the petition it's really gathering steam now! 24 and counting!

 

We have 4 confirmed experienced pilots out of work. One claiming there are 'no positions'........did anyone tell him it's the middle of winter over there????

 

We have 3 probables thanks to happyfeet. Can that be believed?

 

We have a bunch of low time guys looking for a break.........expected! Atleast they weren't affraid to add their names!

 

And a swag of annonymous people who couldn't even manage a comment! Mmmmm

 

 

Happy days!

 

You are delusional. Get help!

 

 

Happydays.....you bet!

 

[happydays]

 

One word just keeps springing to mind happyfeet...........HYPOCRITE!

 

Tell me, did the 'directors' think it just alittle odd that you were calling from the UAE? Your place of employment! Or did you forget to mention that small bit of information?

 

As I've already said in a previous post I have nothing wrong with the number of work permits issued being reduced given the current economic climate. I DON'T agree that they should stop altogether for reasons pointed out earlier!

 

I'm sure the 'directors' got an up to date well informed and unbiased picture of the situation in Canada..........NOT! Particularly if your attempt at validating your argument yesterday was any indication. Your views are laughable at best, quite obviously you know nothing about the industry in Australia and very little about what takes place with the 'majority' of foreign pilots working in Canada.

 

 

 

 

 

Happydays.....you bet!

[happyfeet]

Happydays, I am going to try be civil with you.

 

#1. Canadians working overseas flying Canadian equipment has nothing to do with migrant workers in Canada.

 

#2 It is very hard for a Canadian to go to Australia and work. for 2 reasons, the industry is very small, and I am sure there are many Austrailain pilots that can fill positions. I would venture to guess that there are probably more austrailians working here in Canada. ( but I could be wrong). Who the **** wants to write a CASA exams. Plus I am older that 30 so a permit is basically out of the question.

 

#3. This big globalization thing is slowly comming to a grinding halt. Economies and unemployment rates ot just here in Canada but around the world are is the crapper.

 

#4 It is only natural that the Canadian government is going to take action to protect its citizens.

 

#5.I was working in the UAE on a six month contract. Only because I could not find a adequate paying job here in Canada. Due to the surplus of lowballers. ( guess where from)

 

 

I know you are not happy about what's happening, sorry!But commom mattey where's that positive attitude, you are certainly not doing your career any good by blurting out profanity especially with things you cannot change.

 

I would't think that the permits are going to get cut off completely, but you will need 5000hrs to get one.

 

One small step for me! A big step for the industry! Feels good I'll tell ya! Sucess! :up:

[OLD BULL]

Happyfeet,

 

You keep saying "ALL' migrants....but you never mentioned if this includes ski hill workers taxi drivers students or just a genuine person on a working holiday??

 

Also you keep referring to foreigners being low ballers, I could give you the name of 2 employers that told me as a foreigner I was more expensive than most canadians and thats the main reason HRDC had no hesitation on re-newing a work permit back in the day when I was on one, was because of my T4.

 

All my friends that are pilots are not low ballers nor am I.

 

I believe that most of the large companies that employ foreign workers have a pay scale set in stone which applies to both foreign and domestic.

 

The low ball thing is more rumor than truth. Jut a observation in 4 years of working and living in Canada.

[skullcap]

The total ridiculousness of this has me baffled. On this forum over two years ago till this last fall there were constant posts on how the operators "better toe the line" and "pay up, no more easy street" "times are good so spread the wealth" and you know what most of us did, no problema....

 

I know for fact that pay levels were never higher ever.

 

Two years ago we needed pilots(yes we ran adds) and could not get experienced qualified people and ran things tight. There was a young fella who was quitting his job here in Canada who was from New Zealand(had seen first hand his abilities and attitude prior) and hired him and his wife. They did an excellant job for us. He taught us about spraying and we taught him about hauling bags and towing birds. He was paid well and worked hard for his money.

 

They decided to move back home and raise their new boy near their famiily. Everyone went their way happy and a little more hours in the bank.

 

So now bad times are here but for how long who knows, a few weeks, a few months, a few years, but all I know is that now if there is a shortage in Canada for pilots and there are willing able people in the world,,,some people have gone out of their way to make that hard if not impossible. Why? Making the pay levels higher to keep the Canadian pilots here as you would have liked to have happen would not have made a hill of beens difference.

 

Every operator has aircraft parked at this time including us,,,do you think it really matters how many kiwis or aussies are here to me,,,,NO. What Canada needs is more work not Canadian pilots.

 

I find it interesting in that in my travels to remote areas I find Austrians, Kiwis, Australians, etc....hmmm, is that because their is no Canadians available hmmmm.

 

What folks have to adjust to is that since our industry is cyclical and when times get lean, they will not be able to do tours working in rubber boot nowwhere and make 130,000 a year when the operator has a jetranger doing 300 hours a year instead of two astars doing 700 hr each a year.

 

It is time when we all become more flexible and bend with the wind. You cannot force more work to happen, you can only become more resourceful.

 

So if in fact you did call HRDC and make waves be comforted with the fact that when things get slow, the Canadian operators will still hire Canadians and when there are more Canadians available they will get the work,,,it is really supply and demand, by making things tougher for the Kiwis coming here will not stop the need for experienced pilots, it will only make safety suffer in my opinion as operators will be putting in less experienced people in places they should not be.

 

You want to make a difference, how bout lobbying your government to not accept low rates for contracts and taking advantage of operators when times are tough,,,

 

How bout lobbying your government to make the oil companies account for the reason they can charge 86 cents a liter for gas and jet fuel is $1.75 liter when a barrel of oil is $40.

 

In other words pull it out and take a breath of fresh cool Canadian air.

 

 

 

 

[happyheli :-)]

Hi to all

I am new here and just been reading all this and it took me over 2 hours and some interesting and some....... i will leave it up to you guys to put in something.

 

I see that there is a movement to ban pilots from other countries since they are taking jobs from the Canadians.

 

One question is popping in my mind; where do you Canadians come from? My part is part Antigua and England. There is more in there to but......

 

So now we should give all the jobs to the natives? They are the real Canadians, all others are immigrants!

 

Just food for thought so we can keep the discussion going :-)

 

(What names will I be called now )

[happyfeet]

Happyfeet,

 

You keep saying "ALL' migrants....but you never mentioned if this includes ski hill workers taxi drivers students or just a genuine person on a working holiday??

 

Also you keep referring to foreigners being low ballers, I could give you the name of 2 employers that told me as a foreigner I was more expensive than most canadians and thats the main reason HRDC had no hesitation on re-newing a work permit back in the day when I was on one, was because of my T4.

 

All my friends that are pilots are not low ballers nor am I.

 

I believe that most of the large companies that employ foreign workers have a pay scale set in stone which applies to both foreign and domestic.

 

The low ball thing is more rumor than truth. Jut a observation in 4 years of working and living in Canada.

 

 

I understand you concerns. Yes migrant worker in industries where there are large amount of openings is far different than an industry with a very small number of openings. immigration and HRDC are now having a closer look.

 

As far as the low baller thing goes. I guess if you are an established high time pilot with all the stuff working for base wage of $4000 a month before taxes and no mins, is an issue especially when the young guy with 800 hrs will do it and be very gratefull. Its all dollars and cents. I would like to see you pay a mortgage, feed 2 teen agers, life insurance premiums,vehicles,vehicle insurance,property tax,etc.ect. on the crappy wages that are being held back due to cheap labour. The good paying jobs in Canada are far and few between and it does't do Canadians any favour buy having an excess of foriegn pilots that will work for dirt cheap. TC considers a licensed pilot a stakeholder. Do the math!

 

In my career I have flown more than 10,000 hrs. So I have earned some operator in excess of 13M-15M gross. Lets say the profit marging is 10%. I have no retirement , barely enough money to pay for the kids to go to college.....

 

This is insane!

 

The operators have had a free ride with the cheap pilots from overseas comming here to gain experience. I am happy its going to change. Add on the fact that the jobs are scarce, and there you have it... It the natural progression of things.

 

Nuf said whats done is done, glad I could have a hand in it. I't will be nice to live at home agin and not have to worry out going away to work.

 

Cheer All

 

HF